A Modest Proposal

[Merry Prankster]

A Modest Proposal

A guy with an assault weapon walks into the church for a small community in Sutherland Springs, Texas, kills 26 and wounds 20 others, over 10% of the town’s population.  This, about a month after a guy in Vegas killed 58 and wounded hundreds of others with an arsenal of automatic weapons and ammo.  And about a week after a guy in NYC mowed down dozens of people with a rental truck, killing 8.
What’s the problem?  Remember, not guns, not bullets, not rental trucks, but PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE!  So the problem isn ‘t guns or rental trucks, IT’S PEOPLE, PEOPLE!  Are you paying attention?  More specifically, it’s CRAZY PEOPLE, i.e., “NUT JOBS,” (James Comey?) and MUSLIM EXTREMISTS, i.e., MUSLIM NUT JOBS.

Now that he has identified the problem, MP has a Modest Proposal (Thank you, Jonathan Swift.)  First, build a bunch of Sheriff Arpaio-style holding pens in every state in the union—from Maine to Hawaii, from Florida to Alaska.  Then, round up every NUT JOB (anyone with a questionable mental health history, or is homeless or drools or has “Marty Feldman” eyes, or has anger management issues) and MUSLIM (any guy with brown skin who has a scraggly beard or carries a prayer rug, any woman who wears one of those shishkabob veils, and anyone else who looks like a Muslim (you know what MP means—sort of like porn, you know it when you see it)) and put them in a pen.  Then, for each and every one, engage in extreme, nay, extremely extreme vetting.  MP has no idea what that means, the President certainly can explain it, but it probably means everyone flunks.  It’s called “due process,” alt-right style.    Those deemed to be Nut Jobs, or worse yet, Cosmopolitan Nut Jobs, will be deported to North Korea.  Kim Jung Un probably could use the extra slave labor and might view it as a generous gesture so he might reciprocate by halting his nuclear missile program.  All Muslim Nut Jobs (which probably means all Muslims except for Fareed Zakaria) will be deported to Saudi Arabia.  It’s a large Muslim country which consists of 99% uninhabited desert so there’s plenty of room.  Problem solved.

MP knows all you Malcolm X, Saul Alinsky-loving left wing nut jobs will say his proposal is unconstitutional and cruel.  You Marxist morons likely prefer some measure like universal background checks/federal registry or limiting magazine-size or banning bump stocks and semi-automatic weapons.  In other words, violating the rights of millions of law-abiding, gun-toting, gun-loving Americans to use their 300 million guns for strictly lawful purposes.  No wonder Sarah Palin puts a bulls-eye on you guys.

MP admits there might be a mistake or two or ten thousand or twenty thousand.  But isn’t this a very small price to pay for the certainty of ridding our beloved country of the riff-raff, massacreists-in-waiting who threaten our cherished way of life?  Are we really willing to tolerate the presence of these potential mass butchers when we can cleanse the country of this threat and preserve the American way of life for those who deserve it?  The question almost answers itself.

If you have any questions or comments, please write to MP c/o Pete’s Gun Emporium, Truck Rental Depot & Home for the Clinically Insane, New Bedford, MA.

[Snowbird]

I know all the people who do these mass killings are not nut jobs.  Some are extremist (ISIS) members which does not include all Muslims.  Some just have no empathy for anyone.  Maybe something went wrong in the way they were wired but most serial killers fall in this group. 

Then we have the mentally ill, schizophrenics mostly.  They walk the streets and fill our jails since the laws were changed to make it harder to have them committed to a hospital.  We use to have one of the largest mental hospitals in the world in the town where I grew up.  My parents both worked there, Mother as an Occupational Therapist and Daddy as an admission officer.  I worked there when I got out of school as a secretary.  There was a population of over 12,000 patients (who later were referred to as clients) in the 1960's.  It was closed down because the powers that be said the patients' rights were violated.  Many of them became homeless.  Many were sent to jails and prisons because they did not know how to get along with society.  Some were put in group homes all over the state which are privately run and cannot be monitored like they should be.  A place like this a few miles from me was finally shut down because of abuse to the mental clients.

If a person has a member of their family that needs mental care they no longer can get them admitted without going through hell.  The mother of the boy who killed those children had tried to get him in a hospital or so I have read.  The student who killed in one of the colleges had parents who knew he needed help but were unable to get him in a hospital.  A man who lived a few miles from me had a son who was dangerous because of his schizaphrenia
.  He tried to get him committed and called the police many times for protection.  Finally he had to shoot and kill his own son to protect himself. 

I am not saying this would be the answer to our problem of mass murders because the mentally ill are only a part of the problem.  But for their own sake, the mentally ill DO NOT belong in jails or prisons.  There needs to be changes in the laws to help families be able to have help for their loved ones and prevent them from doing these things.   Now as far as the just plain evil meanness that some people possess I have no clue what to do. 

[bacali]

Well. MP... these are some ideas. Maybe Kim Jung would love to have these people.... because we don't want this type of person here any longer. And...
I think most of the people who do these mass killings have to be ....a bit insane. No?
No absolutely sane individual would ever use a high caliber rifle like yesterday's massacre, or the massacre in Las Vegas or mow down people in a truck at a high speed in New York.
Period!!!
Insanity takes many forms...

I used to feel that these were people with ...maybe no family life, people who were abused as children... people who were for some reason...just "sick" .... and they should be given treatment
I'm sorry to say that now ... I don't care what we do with them. I would like to put the man who mowed down the bike riders in NY ...... have him stand and have a truck plow into him at 60 mph.  I would!
Sorry...but, my feelings for people like him and this boy who killed so many children yesterday.... even an 18 month old little baby and a pregnant woman.... what can I say...?
I hope when he arrived at the Golden Gate.... he was held countable for his many murders...and
I'm glad he killed himself, too....because I am so tired of our tax dollar going to try to "treat" these people and it takes years and all the money we spend, as a nation, feeding and giving them a comfortable roof over their heads!
Just look at the years of our country taking care of Charles Manson!!!! Why???

Give us ALL a break!!! Years ago, as a younger person, I was so totally against the death penalty. Now... I am not... but, I want it done in a timely fashion where these people are not enjoying the many last years of theirs lives comfortably taken care by us....do it fast!!!!
All the poor, poor victims of these atrocities....they didn't have the luxury to enjoy their last minutes!
Haven't we all had enough?

[ponytail]

Well said, MP, and Snowbird, and bacali! The next crazed maniac is right around the corner because nothing will be done, unfortunately. It will just be horrifying mass killings one after another--ad infinitum. I keep hoping some sort of prevention will be agreed on...nation wide data bases, strict enforcement of the laws already in place, early detection of troubled youth, limiting magazine size, banning the sale of bump stocks, lengthening waiting periods even, and on and on. I am hoping that something is done to ban those guilty of domestic violence from being able to purchase weapons after this, but probably not. I am afraid the opposite will be true, after Newtown there was a call for guns in schools and now after Sutherland Springs I hear there is also a call for guns in churches. Frankly, I am more afraid of my gun toting neighbors than I am of foreign terrorists.

[Snowbird]

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/texas-shooting-suspects-phone-too-encrypted-access-now-181005096--abc-news-topstories.html

[bacali]

I guess, by now, we have all heard this same news. How terribly sad for everyone.
And, one family alone has eight people from different generations....all dead.
Going to a Sunday church service and..... this happens.

[Snowbird]

I don't understand how this guy was still walking the streets.  After the many times he beat his wife and even hit his infant step-son in the head that could have killed him, putting a gun to the wife's head, you would think that he would be serving some serious time.  I have read of many cases, even some I know of the people personally, that went from abusing to killing.  Perhaps it is time to change the law so abusers will be dealt with more severely. 

It is time to thank of the safety of the population in general over the civil rights of individuals.  I copied this paragraph from the article I posted above.  I think it proves my point about the rights of the population over individual rights.  Perhaps these people would not have died if this man's civil rights had not been protected, even though he was a threat to people.
Peak Behavioral Health said in a statement today, "We are deeply committed to providing the best patient care. We never discuss whether someone was or was not a patient at our hospital, and we never discuss any information about our patients. Preserving the confidentiality of this information is not only a matter of policy, it is federal and state law."

[bacali]

I don't understand how this guy was still walking the streets.  After the many times he beat his wife and even hit his infant step-son in the head that could have killed him, putting a gun to the wife's head, you would think that he would be serving some serious time.  I have read of many cases, even some I know of the people personally, that went from abusing to killing.  Perhaps it is time to change the law so abusers will be dealt with more severely. 

It is time to thank of the safety of the population in general over the civil rights of individuals.  I copied this paragraph from the article I posted above.  I think it proves my point about the rights of the population over individual rights.  Perhaps these people would not have died if this man's civil rights had not been protected, even though he was a threat to people.
Peak Behavioral Health said in a statement today, "We are deeply committed to providing the best patient care. We never discuss whether someone was or was not a patient at our hospital, and we never discuss any information about our patients. Preserving the confidentiality of this information is not only a matter of policy, it is federal and state law."

The part of the previous post is true. Criminals have rights.
We found this out first hand...my older son is in law enforcement... he is a sheriff. Many years ago, he was bitten and the bite broke his skin so he was bleeding.
Did the prison have any diseases? Did he have aids? He was not allowed to find out , so had to go for frequent testing ..to see if aids or anything else showed up..... and this was at a time when he was just starting a family.
How is this fair? It's not.....but, it is our LAW.   

[Merry Prankster]

MP’s bitingly sarcastic Modest Proposal was born from frustration, anger and a sense of complete futility.  There is no solution to eliminate mass killings, at least for the foreseeable future.  Please permit MP to explain his point of view.

Guns Out of Control—So long as the gun manufacturers and their lackey, the NRA, hold the manhood and womanhood of most of Congress in their back pockets and successfully sow mass hysteria among gun owners, nothing will happen.   A couple of examples:  A deranged man walks into a school with a rifle and mows down a classroom full of six and seven year olds--- one of the most evil, heinous, unimaginably tragic acts in American history.  What is the response from Congress to this horrific massacre of our society’s most precious, most innocent members?  Zip, nada, crickets.  A man slaughters 58 concert-goers and wounds hundreds of others w/guns equipped with bump stocks and Congress can’t even muster the quarter-ounce of courage necessary to ban bump stocks, which are not even guns?  BTW, the NRA bans the use of bump stocks at its’ gun ranges because it deems them to be too dangerous.  MP rests his case.  Forget about Congress enacting even the most innocuous of gun control measures let alone any meaningful, common sense gun control measure.  Meanwhile, the gun manufacturers/dealers continue to churn out and sell thousands of guns each and every day, adding to the existing arsenal of 300 million.

Murderous Loons can’t be identified.  How exactly does one identify and label a loon, let alone a loon with a propensity for violence?  Do we require mothers, brothers, sisters, etc. to drag a suspected loon into court for a judge to make a formal finding that this person is a loon who can’t purchase guns?  Do we require all psychiatrists and psychologists to disclose the identity of their patients and put them on a loon list?  Do we require public disclosure of the identity of all persons who have ever had a prescription for a drug to treat a mental condition?  What about women who suffer from post partum depression or a severe case of menopause (if anyone believes severe menopause cannot trigger violent behavior they have yet to meet MP’s ex- wife)?  Do we subject them all to extreme vetting?   Do we sew a scarlett “L” onto all of the clothing of anyone who is identified as a loon?  Do we create a “Loon Registry” with their current addresses and post it on the web so anyone can identify all of the loons in the neighborhood?  Has anyone ever heard of patient confidentiality and constitutional rights?  Believe it or not, even loons have them.  The Virginia Tech shooter’s (he killed 32 people, but that happened in 2007 so most people have probably forgotten about it) student/medical records clearly indicated he was a dangerous loon but they were confidential.  Even a loon who has not been convicted of a criminal offense has the constitutional right to purchase and own a gun.  That right cannot be taken away without due process, i.e., a court hearing, testimony, a judge’s finding of mental incompetence or involuntary commitment to a mental institution. Identify a dangerous loon before he conducts a massacre?  Fuggedaboutit.

Muslim Extremists—Repel and ban the foreign invaders to solve our problem?  Not so fast, my friends.  Let MP provide a quote from a reputable study of lethal terrorist attacks in the US since 9/11:
 
“EVERY JIHADIST WHO CONDUCTED A LETHAL ATTACK INSIDE THE UNITED STATES SINCE 9/11 WAS A CITIZEN OR LEGAL RESIDENT.”

Also, not a single one of these people came from a country President Trump designated for the travel ban/extreme vetting.  BTW, one of the President’s new besties not subject to the travel ban, Saudi Arabia, was the home of 15 of the 19 9/11 terrorists.  Where did Bin Laden hail from?  For those who have the time and interest, google the term “wahabbism,” just for kicks.

Facts are pesky things, aren’t they?  They keep getting in the way of easy answers.  As unfortunate as it might seem, all of the US lethal jihadist terrorists since 9/11 have constitutional rights.  We can’t deport them, we can’t even torture them.  Imagine that!  Does anyone actually believe we can non-immigrate our way out of terrorist attacks?

What about getting rid of ISIS, or any terrorist group, for that matter?  Yeah, sure.  ISIS fighters come from over 40 countries across the globe.  Thousands of them returned to their home countries or went to Africa or Western Europe before the US reduced Raqqa to a pile of rubble.  Does anyone believe they are just going to roll over and die?  Also, in case anyone hasn’t noticed, ISIS, al Qaeda and their ilk have become franchise operations, sort of like McDonald’s, or maybe like the Elk’s Lodge or Moose Club.  They have chapters all over the Middle East, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Africa, East Asia, Western Europe, etc.  Africa is a veritable alphabet soup of terrorist organizations.  How many people knew we had 1000 troops fighting terrorists in Niger, of all places?  Even the Congress did not know.  How many people knew there are 6000 US troops stationed in Africa?  Does anyone seriously doubt that in the contemporary world there will be an ISIS 2.0 or an al Qaeda 3.0, spreading terrorism across the globe and inspiring and radicalizing lone wolves?  Terrorism is a fact of life, it’s here to stay for at least another generation (probably longer), and no one is immune, not even the United States.  It’s not a question of if, but of when, and of how many.

So, the next time a Muslim Extremist commandeers a team of oxen and ploughs his way through the Iowa State Fair or a loon legally purchases a semi-automatic bazooka and blows away a nursing home in Boca Raton----cry, shake your head, clench your fists, scream or bay at the moon.  Because that’s about all you can do about it.  And so it goes…

[Snowbird]

My daughter who has a masters in psychology and is also a registered nurse is taking online classes to keep her license up to date.  She said it was mandatory to report patients who were violent or had a potential to kill others.  I was referring to the mental health facility (Not prison) that did not report the man who shot the people in the church when he escaped from there in 2012 and had made threats against people.  They cited confidentiality as the reason and that is not true.  I copied the following from something I just read.


Mental Health Professionals’ Duty to Warn
9/28/2015
Table of Contents

    Table: State Laws
    Additional Resources

Contact

    Karmen Hanson, Denver office

Most states have laws that either require or permit mental health professionals to disclose information about patients who may become violent. Those laws are receiving increased attention following recent mass shootings, such as those in Aurora, Colo., and Newtown, Conn. A New York law enacted Jan. 15, 2013, moves that state's law from a permissive to a mandatory duty for mental health professionals to report when they believe patients may pose a danger to themselves or others but protects therapists from both civil and criminal liability for failure to report if they act "in good faith." New York's new law also allows law enforcement to remove firearms owned by patients reported to be likely to be dangerous. (Note: Please see chart below for update.)

Under ethical standards tracing back to the Roman Hippocratic Oath, doctors and mental health professionals usually must maintain the confidentiality of information disclosed to them by patients in the course of the doctor-patient relationship. With some exceptions codified in state and federal law, health professionals can be legally liable for breaching confidentiality. One exception springs from an effort to protect potential victims from a patient’s violent behavior. California courts imposed a legal duty on psychotherapists to warn third parties of patients’ threats to their safety in 1976 in Tarasoff v. The Regents of the University of California. This case triggered passage of “duty to warn” or “duty to protect” laws in almost every state as summarized in the map and, in more detail, in the chart below.

Here is the link if you would like to read the rest.  http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/mental-health-professionals-duty-to-warn.aspx

[bacali]

My earlier post , unlike this past one, does not refer to mental health patients, but, to the rights of all criminals....meaning people who for what ever reason are jailed.
Just think of any offense.... they are jailed ...and some are violent .
These people ... even ones who many have committed murder.... have their rights to not have their medical record given...this was my son's problem. They would not disclose whether this man had any disease.... !
Not right.

[Snowbird]

Bacali, I thought since you were quoting my post that referred to a mental health facility you thought I was referring to the confidentiality of prisoners. 
I was not referring to medical records but to the potential of a mental patient to hurt themselves are someone else.  In most states it now has to be reported if a psychologist or psychiatrist hears a patient in their care talk about killing or harming someone.   It had nothing to do with a disease.  That is why I was confused when you copied my post.  We were talking about two different groups of people. 

You said "this part of the previous post is true".  Did you mean the rest of my post was NOT true?

[Court]

These horrific acts are hard to wrap my brain around. I just don't understand how someone could do that to another human being. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer in any of this. The only thing I know for sure is that these acts need to stop.

[ponytail]

Does that slice of cheesecake mean it's your bday, Court! HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

[Merry Prankster]

Snow, you’re a gem.  Although MP does not always agree with your opinions, he always respects them because you do your homework.  In the instant case, you forced him to do his.  Thank you.

A duty to warn is one element in the complex matrix of how a violent loon is identified and eventually makes it onto the Federal “no buy” list, the ultimate touchstone for gun dealer denial of a prospective gun purchaser.  Unfortunately, there is no satisfactory comprehensive Federal statute addressing this issue (when is the Congress going to grow a pair when it comes to gun control?).  Also, many state statutes on identifying violent loons and making sure those identified are reported to the Feds are flawed, riddled with loopholes, and subject to more than a little bureaucratic ineptitude in their execution.  This results in many violent loons falling through the cracks, exemplified by the Sutherland Springs tragedy.  For anyone interested, the following articles highlight the aforementioned issues:

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/background-checks/mental-health-reporting/

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/01/06/us/how-people-with-mental-illness-are-able-to-obtain-guns.html